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Sirupate 
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Joined: 30/Sep/2008 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Online Posts: 7941 |
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 Topic: FOR ADULT SEMPAI'SPosted: 03/Jul/2010 at 11:12 |
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This is something that I have been debating about with myself for some time, and that is whether to introduce kukri and dhal techniques combined, versus shamshir.
I feel it is important, regarding kukri, as that is a direct historical link to the kukri, however I am reluctant to introduce it without the thoughts of you Semapai's.
It would involve;
1. Having to buy a Dhal and Shamshir
2. Learning basic sabre techniques
3. Learning to combine Dhal and kukri. and dhal and shamshir
It could be spread over the 6th, 7th and 8th Dan gradings?
Your thoughts would be most welcome.
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Jerry
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Joined: 30/Sep/2008 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 110 |
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Posted: 05/Jul/2010 at 13:45 |
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As I said on Saturday, I am always interested to learn and develop new skills, and seems to be a natural development and progression from the Kukri. I think it would be a fascinating opportunity to learn as much as possible from you. Having it as 6th 7th and 8th Dan would be ideal as by that time hopefully we would have settled well into the new syllabus and be confident with it. Perhaps we could do a taster session some time. You mentioned training blades could post a link for us to have a look at? Cheers Sempai J |
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Sirupate
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Posted: 05/Jul/2010 at 22:06 |
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I think you hit the nail on the head Sempai J, it would be a natural progression, and with the syllabus being very settled now I think it would not be so difficult to have this aspect of MA in Syllabus, to make it more complete.
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LeeDman
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Joined: 16/Jan/2010 Location: Plymouth Online Status: Offline Posts: 96 |
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Posted: 05/Jul/2010 at 22:53 |
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Sensei, I alway love to learn new things and want to constantly broaden my MA skills, so yes I'm up for learning new weapon techniques. I'm probably a little way off yet mind, as still need to learn all my F/S, Katana, Ratan and Kukri drills off by heart and become more confident in their use.
Its great to have this planned in, as there will be some point where my body is not going to be able to be battered any more. However I intend to do MA until I drop, so this is a great way of keeping the mind and body young. Could we also incorporate some spear and Staff work Sensei?
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cheers, Sempai Lee
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Sirupate
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Posted: 05/Jul/2010 at 23:57 |
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More Sempai
 I certainley don't see why not at a future stage.
This is the kind of Saber that I was thinking of;
From the Nepal National Museum;
Note the Dhal sheild, kukri and Shamshir, some of the British 1803 Officers Infantry swords, took their shape from the Shamshir, most though from the 1796 Light Dragoon saber.
  British 1803 pattern with Shamshir influence
 1803 pattern with 1796 Light Dragoon influence;
 And a Light Dragoon 1796 Pattern;
 Both the 1796 Light Dragoon sabre (the French Cavalry hated it) and the 1803, were used in the battle of Waterloo and in the Anglo Nepali War;
Incident from the Anglo Nepali war;
'At Kalanga a fort near
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Sirupate
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Posted: 06/Jul/2010 at 09:07 |
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A bit of history behind the 1796 Ligt Saber;
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LeeDman
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Posted: 06/Jul/2010 at 12:18 |
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Interesting stuff Sensei!
I have to say from my inexperience view point, I think if I was thrown into battle, and got the choice of any close in Melee weapon (without fire arms etc) I'd have gone for either a Katana or a Kuk! I guess the Shamshir, although impressive, was ment ideally for horseback one slash one kill attacks? although saying that I'd be a bit happier with the 1793 Light Dragoon Sabre |
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cheers, Sempai Lee
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Sirupate
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Posted: 06/Jul/2010 at 13:37 |
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The 1803 Bristish Infantry Officer sword happened because the 1796 Light Cavalry Sabre was to heavy for foot use, also we would be using the Shamshir/Mamaluke with the Dhal, sorry about the picture size below;
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Jerry
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Posted: 06/Jul/2010 at 13:48 |
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I recall seeing some sabre cutting techniques on a pig somewhere on the site the most interesting was the backhand cut with the back of the tip. I also recently watched an interesting demonstration over at Mount Edgcombe with a chap using a naval sword to demonstrate simple defensive tactics against typical sword attacks, almost to the point of being preemptive.
I think thrust accurately would have taken some practice with the Shamshir. I like the Kilij of the Ottoman Turks, the predecessor of the 1831 pattern Mamluke sabre worn by British officers.
I have to keep my eyes open for one of these swords.
Sempai J
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Jerry
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Posted: 07/Jul/2010 at 13:41 |
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I should have put 1821 not 1831, derrrr!
Sempai J
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Sirupate
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Posted: 07/Jul/2010 at 15:02 |
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It's no probs Sempai J
 Kilij is just another word for Shamshir, I think?
Pretty much at the bottom of this link, it has three beautifull Shamsir;
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Justin.T.
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Posted: 07/Jul/2010 at 18:39 |
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I feel that if there is a direct historical link then it would be natural progression to what we already know and spreading it out over a few grades will make it easier for students to keep on top of the rest of the syllabus as well as learning new skills
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Cheers, Sempai JT.
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Sirupate
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Posted: 07/Jul/2010 at 22:09 |
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Cool, so it's a go then, now how to tell Leanne why I'm buying another sword
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LeeDman
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Posted: 09/Jul/2010 at 12:14 |
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cheers, Sempai Lee
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Jerry
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Posted: 09/Jul/2010 at 13:05 |
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Excellent thread to the Wallace collection Sensei, the last two swords listed as Shamshir's were what I had in mind. Cheers
Sempai J
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Sirupate
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Posted: 17/Jul/2010 at 16:41 |
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Ok guys and girls, I have found the manufacturers of these swords;
Mamaluke Sabre
 1796 light cavalry sabre;
 1803 Infantry Officers sword
 So hopefully I will be able get some reasonable prices on the swords.
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Justin.T.
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Posted: 17/Jul/2010 at 22:09 |
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ummmm decisions, decisions.
I do like the 1803 Infantry officers sword
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Cheers, Sempai JT.
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Sirupate
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Posted: 17/Jul/2010 at 23:42 |
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They are all nice Sempai
Please check this thread out; http://www.torabladesforum.co.uk/a-historically-important-1803-flankers-sword_topic1023.html
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Jerry
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Posted: 19/Jul/2010 at 16:26 |
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Excellent, they all look good and would be hard to choose from by looks alone. I did enjoy the link, I will pop in to see the swords sometime, maybe they might let me handle them to get an idea of weight and balance.
Sempai J
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Sirupate
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Posted: 28/Jul/2010 at 15:16 |
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I have been doing a lot of re-search into the sword type, but opinions are most welcome, from the re-search I have been doing, I keep comming back to the 1796 Pattern for three reasons; 1/ It is a British sword, as much as any sword can be.2/ It is rated as one of if not the best sabre's ever designed and used
3/ It would have been the sword used by the 8th Dragoons in the incident mentioned in a previous post on this thread, from John Pemble's superb book 'Britains Gurkha War'
So there is both a genuine British and Goorkha historical link to the usuage of both the khukuri and dhal, and sabre used against kukuri and dhal, so what do you think?
The only thing I am trying to find out is whether or not the 8th Irish Dragoons were still on horseback or on foot.
The 1796 was also used with great effect in the Battle of Waterloo; here is an account of the 13th Hussars;
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